CYCC Regional Qualifiers

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

So perhaps allowing the kid to play up if they are the highest rated player or at least equal to the average in the higher aged category.
...
I am talking about only the CYCC here, the CYCC qualifiers are a different animal.

If a kid enters the Up age group in the Qualifier, and he qualifies (first three places), I don't see a problem that he would play in that UP group in the CYCC.

[Bob Gillanders]

If a kid enters the Up age group in the Qualifier, and he qualifies (first three places), I don't see a problem that he would play in that UP group in the CYCC.

The qualifiers and CYCC itself are completely different animals and as such this logic does not follow. I am going to go back and comment on Aris's last post, which will be relevant here.

[Bob Gillanders]

You have got to be kidding here! Why wouldn't we absolutely insist on the same rules?!

The CYCC qualifiers and the CYCC itself have different goals and objectives, so they don't necessarily need to have the same rules. Playing up in the CYCC causes problems because it leads into who represents Canada at the WYCC, who gets the money, etc.etc.

The objective of the CYCC qualifiers is simply to ensure kids entering the CYCC have the basic skills and tournament experience so that they don't embarrass themselves at the "big show". We don't really want to restrict anyone, the more the merrier. Also, some smaller qualifiers will need to combine sections, so playing up is not such an issue.

Also, at some qualifiers, 50% score qualifies you for CYCC, at some others, it is 1st, 2nd, 3rd winners. A lot is left to the discretion of the provincial youth coordinators. Every organizer running a CYCC qualifier should have a discussion with their provincial youth coordinator beforehand, as to how many kids they can qualify. It may also depend on how many kids enter the qualifier, and how sections maybe combined.

This may all sound ridiculously confusing, but it really isn't. If everyone just keeps the objectives in mind, and use good judgement and some common sense.

[Aris Marghetis]

The CYCC qualifiers and the CYCC itself have different goals and objectives, so they don't necessarily need to have the same rules. Playing up in the CYCC causes problems because it leads into who represents Canada at the WYCC, who gets the money, etc.etc.

The objective of the CYCC qualifiers is simply to ensure kids entering the CYCC have the basic skills and tournament experience so that they don't embarrass themselves at the "big show". We don't really want to restrict anyone, the more the merrier. Also, some smaller qualifiers will need to combine sections, so playing up is not such an issue.

Also, at some qualifiers, 50% score qualifies you for CYCC, at some others, it is 1st, 2nd, 3rd winners. A lot is left to the discretion of the provincial youth coordinators. Every organizer running a CYCC qualifier should have a discussion with their provincial youth coordinator beforehand, as to how many kids they can qualify. It may also depend on how many kids enter the qualifier, and how sections maybe combined.

This may all sound ridiculously confusing, but it really isn't. If everyone just keeps the objectives in mind, and use good judgement and some common sense.

OK, I can see your point, even though I would still prefer the rules between the CYCC Qualifiers and the CYCC (the WYCC Qualifier, lol) to be the same. Regardless, it then seems to me that your are allowing the CYCC Qualifiers Organizers to set their policies?

More specifically, who determines if playing up is permitted in an Ontario CYCC Qualifier? So far, someone said no playing up at all, by rule, but is that for sure for 2012? Or are those decisions to be made by a CYCC leader, an OYCC leader, or each event Organizer?

Thanks and regards.

[Bob Gillanders]

OK, I can see your point, even though I would still prefer the rules between the CYCC Qualifiers and the CYCC (the WYCC Qualifier, lol) to be the same. Regardless, it then seems to me that your are allowing the CYCC Qualifiers Organizers to set their policies?

More specifically, who determines if playing up is permitted in an Ontario CYCC Qualifier? So far, someone said no playing up at all, by rule, but is that for sure for 2012? Or are those decisions to be made by a CYCC leader, an OYCC leader, or each event Organizer?

Thanks and regards.

As you know, we introduced the qualifier system just last year, and it is fair to say we are still developing the rules, standards, and practices. I don't recall the issue of playing up ever coming up last year, so we are in new territory here. For 90% of the qualifiers, I would say "no playing up" is the order of the day, but I certainly believe local organizers should hold some discretionary power here. Unforeseen circumstances are always possible and flexibility is needed. Finally, we want the provincial youth coordinators to be actively involved in the process. We are looking to them to approve the qualification process, so keep them consulted.

[Bob Armstrong]

The CYCC qualifiers and the CYCC itself have different goals and objectives, so they don't necessarily need to have the same rules. Playing up in the CYCC causes problems because it leads into who represents Canada at the WYCC, who gets the money, etc.etc.

The objective of the CYCC qualifiers is simply to ensure kids entering the CYCC have the basic skills and tournament experience so that they don't embarrass themselves at the "big show". We don't really want to restrict anyone, the more the merrier. Also, some smaller qualifiers will need to combine sections, so playing up is not such an issue.

The current section of the CFC Handbook concerning playing up at the CYCC is:

Section 10 - Invitational Youth Championships: Junior, Cadet [ BA - obviously a housekeeping motion to update this section title is required ]

1008. Entries:

....................

{Motion Bunning/Taylor in 2002-3 GL1 From AGM}:
The Executive may allow exceptional players to move up to a higher age group.

In the light of all the previous discussion, who thinks this section requires amendment?

Bob A

[Pierre Dénommée]

At the international level, there is a significant difference in playing strength between the age groups. A 10 years old that could win the Canadian U16 championship would likely finish last at the World level. FIDE want to splits the World Youth into multiple tournaments. The current FIDE handbook list the U20, U18 and U16 separately and the lower categories are grouped together but on the FIDE Calendar, there is still only one Youth Word Championship for the next three years. If the split becomes reality. it would be possible for a player to play in more then one category.

[Andrei Botez]

Playing up in the CYCC causes problems because it leads into who represents Canada at the WYCC....

This was done before, if you want you can check Efroimski Marsel database. She is born in 1995 and she played in U18 in WYCC2010

http://ratings.fide.com/individual_c...iod=2011-01-01

[Valer Eugen Demian]

I think players should be strongly encourage to play within their age group at all times and at all national levels including CYCC. If there are special circumstances when playing up is desired, those should be treated on a case by case basis.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Valer:

We seem to disgree on this one.

I am going to propose a motion that will give the top juniors the option to play up. I think it is a matter of freedom of choice for up and coming juniors.

So : play up ? Yes ; Restricted ? Yes.

I hope to post the motion for public input this week.

Bob