Formally Adding Junior Coordinator to Executive

[Bob Armstrong]

I had hoped that the original David Lavin motion on Roles of CFC Executive ( Motion 2010-01 ) was going to be passed with amendments. But in GL # 3, Eric has now ruled it out of order due to Lyle Craver now withdrawing as seconder. Therefore, one of the current executive positions I had hoped would be dealt with, Junior Coordinator, died.

So myself and Governor Patrick McDonald, are about to file a motion to add the Junior Coordinator position to the Executive. This has in fact been an executive position for some time now, but no one ever amended Bylaw 3 on Officer Roles, to put it in formally.

This position was originally discussed on this board a while ago, in the context of amending Motion 2010-01. But we thought it best to present it again, since Eric has confirmed that he likes the idea of motions being presented for public input before being filed.

The motion is:

Motion # 2 - Amending Bylaw 3, Duties of Officers - Junior Coordinator

March 10, 2010

Moved: Robert Armstrong Seconded: Patrick McDonald

That there be added to Bylaw 3 , Duties of Officers, a new Section 8B dealing with “ Junior Coordinator “, as follows:

“ 8B. Junior Coordinator

The Junior Coordinator will be responsible for coordinating our participation in the World Junior Championship, the World Girls Championship, the WYCC, the Pan-American Junior and Youth Championships, the North American Junior and Youth Championships, the World Youth Chess Olympiad, and any other FIDE-related junior tournaments, and for finding organizers for the Canadian Junior Championship and the Canadian Youth Chess Championships, and for assisting the Provincial Junior Coordinators in finding organizers for the Youth Chess Championships, and any Regional Qualifier Youth Chess Championships.”

Commentary:

This has now been an Executive position for some time and should be listed in the Bylaw 3 dealing with Duties of Officers.
The giving of a Section 8B designation is technical in nature to make it integrate into the current Bylaw 3.
The new section makes it clear that the Coordinator is involved, among other things, in YCC’s in all provinces, for all categories. We in Ontario have also had for some time now, a good experience with Regional Qualifier Youth Chess Championships, which feed players into the provincial YCC. The section makes clear that the Provincial Junior Coordinator is primarily responsible for the YCC’s/Regional Qualifier YCC’s, but that the Junior Coordinator assists in this aspect as well.

We would be pleased to receive any comments you may have before we file the motion.

Bob

[Christopher Mallon]

It was incidentally renamed Youth Coordinator ages ago. Handbook must not have been updated for that. I'm pretty sure it was at one of the AGMs but I could be wrong.

Also incidentally, if we are indeed to be following Robert's Rules of Order, once moved and seconded, a motion cannot be "withdrawn" by the mover or seconder as it is the property of the "meeting" at that point. Seconding a motion does not imply support for it either, it merely implies that it is worthy of debate and often a vehement opponent will second a motion, just to "kill it once and for all"...

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Chris:

We took the position name from the Lavin motion.

But I think " Junior " is better than " Youth ". We are in the process now of voting to make our CFC junior membership available to all U 20 years, matching the FIDE designation of " junior ". And " Youth " in chess has a specific meaning of U 18 years ( eg. Canadian Youth Chess Championships ). We want this position to deal with all U 20 year olds ( eg. the Canadian Junior Championship ), and so " youth " would be inaccurate.

Also, the CFC website refers to Michael Barron as the " Junior Coordinator ".

As to whether Eric's ruling is correct, I understand that the assembly can challenge an " order " ruling by the chair, and vote to overrule it. I told Eric I thought he was wrong, but couldn't face an administrative battle over it, and I'd just bring new motions, this being one of them. If you want to move to challenge the ruling, go ahead. Maybe you'd get governor support.

Bob

[Christopher Mallon]

I don't really care about the old motion and the CFC doesn't actually have to follow Robert's Rules. Just pointing it out because Eric DOES want to.

It was changed to Youth to give them purview over everything up to and including University chess (into the low 20's age-wise) to which the term Junior most definitely does not apply.

[Ken Craft]

Bob, you are correct. Eric's ruling was clearly wrong. Not the first President to make incorrect rulings.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Chris:

Since most of the players in the Canadian Post-Secondary Chess Championships are not " juniors " ( U 20 ), and can be older adult students and professors, I do not think we should mix them with our junior program.

Mark Bluvshtein and I are introducing the new Executive Officer position of " Tournament Coordinator ". I would think overseeing of that tournament would best be done by this new person, who is dealing with other national championships as well. This way there will be some direct involvement of the executive in this important Canadian tournament.

Bob

[Christopher Mallon]

Bob, I'm not debating whether or not it SHOULD be done, I'm telling you it WAS done.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Chris:

Well I don't know what section of the Handbook it is in, but I guess our motion will change it back !

If anyone knows the secstion where the word " Youth " is now used instead of " Junior " re the Coordinator position, please advise me. We will bring whatever supplementary motion is required to make the Handbook consistently refer to " Junior Coordinator " from now on.

Bob

[Ken Craft]

You are presuming the motion will pass.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Ken:

Always optimistic when it comes to CFC !!

Bob

[Wolfgang(Wilf) FERNER]

Hi Chris and Bob: Well, I located the motion from Jr to Youth Coordinator
please see GL year 0405 GL #1 on page 15/22 of the text of the AGM as item
17 & 17.1 moved Thorvardson/Mallon re "Title of Junior Coordinator" to change
the title of "Junior Coordinator" to "Youth Coordinator" PASSED by AGM 35 out
of 48 item 17.1 Chair: This is a constitutional amendment & as such requires
a Notice to the AGM of at least 30 days
There were no more comments or notes in the minutes.
One more thing I noticed: at the 2009 AGM a Youth Coordinator was elected
under item 5.5 of the incoming part of the AGM.

Wilf Ferner

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Wilf:

Thanks for the excellent research. Patrick and I will bring a motion to reconsider the 2004-5 AGM Motion, Item 17 & 17.1. Our goal will be to defeat it on the reconsideration, and change the title back to " Junior " Coordinator, for the reasons I've given in the above posts.

Bob

[Christopher Mallon]

Well, I personally see that as taking a step backwards, but whatever...

The University program should be the upper end of the whole Youth program, and SHOULD be under the purview of the Youth Coordinator.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Chris:

I guess there are arguments on both sides.

I'm not sure whether there was any organized opposition to the motion at the time. I think there are good arguments against the current position. I'd like to at least have it reconsidered and re-voted on to make sure that the governors still accept the arguments for " Youth " Coordinator.

Bob

[Patrick McDonald]

I beleive that I can lend some insite into this semantic discussion.
I personally prefer "Youth" for the title of the position. And my interest in calling the position Youth Coordinator rather than Junior Coordinator was the impetus to change it.
My preference was because of the misconception that "Junior Coordinator" can bring. "if you are the Junior Coordinator, where is the real coordinator or senior coordinator, I would rather deal the the head guy"

As for aligning with the designations, we are still using Junior as the designation for the memberships and the tournaments that are to be under the perview of the ??? Coordinator are both the Youth Championships (U8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18) and the Junior Championship (U20).

I don't see this as a problem for the Youth coordinator to work with both any more than the Junior coordinator.

I would rather leave it with the Youth name than the Junior name.

[Bob Armstrong]

I am willing to reconsider my opinion, and my intended course of action, and defer to those who have actually been dealing with the youth/junior tournaments.

But before I do, I would like to hear Michael Barron's opinion on " Youth " vs " Junior " Coordinator. I notice that on this board Michael is called " Youth " Coordinator, but on the CFC Website, he is in error referred to as the " Junior " Coordinator ( this obviously requires correction ).

I'd also like to hear from some other governors on this.

Also, given Patrick is my seconder on the Bylaw 3 , Duties of Officers, amendment adding a " Junior " Coordinator, and given the current title in use is " Youth " Coordinator, we'll have to discuss an amendment to this position as described in our motion, to refer to " Youth " Coordinator now. This is regardless of whether I am going to bring a motion in future, to return to " Junior " Coordinator.

Bob

[Christopher Mallon]

I doubt you'll need an official amendment, since your motion was based on an erroneous description in the online handbook.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Chris:

Despite the lack of update on the online Handbook, now that Patrick and I know that the current title ( according to the 2004-5 AGM motion ) is " Youth " Coordinator, we feel we should use that title in our motion # 2.

So we have amended our motion to change the title, and today I have re-filed it with Lyle.

Bob

[Wolfgang(Wilf) FERNER]

Hi Bob: In my opinion, the title is still "Junior Co-ordinator" because of what
happened at that AGM in Kapuskaping. The Chair noted that the motion had
not been done with the 30 days notice for a By-law amendment(Bylaw 3,item 3a).
The chair should have verbalized that fact(with the AGM minutes stating such) and given the meeting to understand
that the vote 30/48 was just an opinion or straw vote and the mover/seconder
should have resubmitted the motion properly with the secretary to be dealt with
in that upcoming year. Secondly, the vote must have 2/3 of the cast votes
in favor in case of a By-law amendment. The 30/48 vote count is 2 votes short of the requirement.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Wilf Ferner

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Wilf:

1. You are likely right that the motion should have been ruled " out of order " for lack of the proper 30 days notice; I am not sure if the chair can make a ruling that the defect can be ignored. But in any event, the minutes don't indicate the chair made any such ruling.

2. 2/3 of 48 is 32, for a constitutional amendment. So with only 30 votes the motion should have been declared defeated. The minutes don't show this happening either.

3. It seems that the chair and the governors all treated the motion as passed. This may be one reason for not reopening the issue.

4. It seems that there is some significant opinion that in any event, " Youth Coordinator " is preferable to " Junior Coordinator " ( a past president and past Junior Coordinator ). If this is supported by most governors as well, then I guess I would just let sleeping dogs lie, and make my motion to add the position of " Youth " Coordinator. As well, if and when the Handbook Updating Committee gets established, I'd have the executive instruct the Subcommittee member to make all reference in the Handbook consistently " Youth ".

5. Are there any governors who feel " Junior Coordinator " is superior to " Youth Coordinator "?

Bob

[Wolfgang(Wilf) FERNER]

Bob: I was wrong. It is a valid change. It is "Youth" after all. I forgot Bylaw 2 section 8f(6th paragraph) and Bylaw 2, see OFFICERS further down in the By-law. Since JUNIOR CO-ORDINATOR is an Officer the vote by "ordinary resolution" (also see section 10,Bylaw 2, (but there "ordinary resolution applies only to "The Board of Directors" )should apply ok. In any case, the CFC Secretary should know for sure. Or you could check with Maurice who has been a chair at AGMs on more than one occasion.

Wilf Ferner

[Christopher Mallon]

If I'm not mistaken, constitutional votes at an AGM only require a simple majority, at least in some cases. In any case it was declared passed by the chair and that ruling was not challenged.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Chris:

As far as I can tell, a " constitutional " amendment always requires a 2/3 majority. Here is Bylaw 3, section 3 :

3. Any amendment or revision of these By-Laws; any matter pertaining to any international agreement between the Federation and any international or foreign Chess Federation or Association; and any matter pertaining to the payment of dues to the Fédération International des Echecs may be made,

(a) at any Annual Meeting of the Assembly, providing that a notice of intention to submit such matter to a vote has been received by the Secretary at least 30 days prior to the date of such Annual Meeting and has been transmitted by the Secretary to each Governor at least 14 days prior to the date of such Annual Meeting and that any resolution pertaining to such matter shall be approved by at least a two-thirds majority of the votes of those present and entitled to vote, including proxy votes.

(b) at any time through a mail vote of Assembly, providing that the exact wording of such proposed amendments or revision, or of the resolution to be passed by the Board through mail vote is submitted to each Governor at least fourteen days before the expiry of the time limit specified by the President for the receipt of the votes by the Secretary, and that at least one-half of the number of votes eligible to be cast has been received by the Secretary, and there is a majority of at least two-thirds of the votes cast in favour of the proposed amendment or revision or resolution.

Abstentions shall not be included in determining whether a two-thirds majority has been attained in (a) or (b) above provided only that the number of votes cast in favour must exceed the sum of the number of votes cast against and of the number of abstentions cast.

Bob

[Christopher Mallon]

You can quote all the CFC rules you want, but in this case I believe Canadian Law lays down what can be done by majority vote at an AGM for a registered Charity or Non-Profit.

In any case, the actual vote was 35/48 (72.9%), not 30/48 so there's no issue.

[Wolfgang(Wilf) FERNER]

Chris: You are correct. I misquoted the result of the vote. It is shown as 35/48
in the minutes.

Wilf Ferner